Horn Sound Notes

AzHonker
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Re: Horn Sound Notes

Postby AzHonker » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:37 pm

1. That's an absolutely awful recording so there's no knowing what the original pitch is
2. Matt is right, that train is hauling da mail so it definitely is going to be Doppler shifted.

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Bradygoldminer
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Re: Horn Sound Notes

Postby Bradygoldminer » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:52 pm

Thanks for the help, everyone!
Hello, My name is Brady
I media blast horns. Click the link for a price list
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bubbabear36
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Re: Horn Sound Notes

Postby bubbabear36 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:48 pm

The K3LA's on the ATSF GP60's sounded different standing still and yes, coming at ya and going away. Doppler effect. Short direct air from the solenoid is what I was told from an insider that checked up close.
GP60's were leading many Hot Shots when they were fresh off assembly line for the Santa Fe.

b2major9th
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Re: Horn Sound Notes

Postby b2major9th » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:16 pm

Another thing to keep in mind is that the bells, as produced seldom blew exactly the advertised notes. Most of the time, regardless of era, the #1 bell was pretty close to D#, within +/- 10 cts. The #2 bell most of the time blew sharp, often as much as 50 to 70 cts sharp meaning it was between F# and G. The #4A bell also tended to run sharp, though not as bad as the #2 bell, typically 20 to 50 cts sharp, though one as sharp as 50 cts high is the exception rather than the rule in my experience.

Evansville-Antiques
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Re: Horn Sound Notes

Postby Evansville-Antiques » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:40 am

In the video: Its a 90s K3 with the strict tunings of their related K5LA parts . Sorry , we cant' encabulate the notes in that quality video.

That sound is before a large figure in Union Pacific asked for their own K3 chord . ( forgot the man's name , but he wore a black cowboy hat)
The Union Pacific style chord is D# G B . yes B .


Nowadays, the RL tunings are a thing all their own . All the prior tuning is effectively destroyed at Nathan Airchime, including the sound of the early atsf K3A seen here . I believe the UP and standard K3s, now well into the RL era , are exactly the same chord, and now its only MPs product description being the difference.

b2major9th
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Re: Horn Sound Notes

Postby b2major9th » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:06 am

Evansville-Antiques wrote:...
That sound is before a large figure in Union Pacific asked for their own K3 chord . ( forgot the man's name , but he wore a black cowboy hat)
The Union Pacific style chord is D# G B . yes B .


I’ve never seen, in more than 20 years, a 2 bell that sounded G natural, as you stated above. They run sharp, but never that sharp.

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FS150HZ
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Re: Horn Sound Notes

Postby FS150HZ » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:38 pm

A little late, but I'll jump in.

Frequencies may be impossible to determine from recordings, but chord structures often can be closely determined. I included a recording of a single chime file I got from Nathan's website. If you go into Audacity, or whatever program you have, you can make dozens of copies and change all the frequencies. Some won't be exact. For example, when you try to convert to 466hz, it'll convert to 469hz. It's not perfect which is annoying, but it's very close on most of them. Try noting the cents sharp or flat of each note for every file. It’s much less confusing than going by frequencies to determine chord structures.

From what I can hear based on Audacity tests, the 2 and 4A bells are both sharp in the chord. Not sure how much exactly, but I highly doubt it exceeds 30 cents on the 2 bell, and the 4A is probably no more than 25 cents sharp in the chord. Using a perfect D# as the root, the three closest possibilities I got in Audacity were (D#, F#+15, B+10), (D#, F#+15, B+20) and (D#, F#+30, B+20). Try everything yourself though, rather than just believing me. You might even find a sound you like better.

You can sharpen the entire chord afterwards to reflect it moving at speed, or just overall higher pitch of the chord in general. The cents of each individual bell will obviously jump equilateral to how much you increase the pitch of the chord.

No matter what you do, it'll sound more harmonic in Audacity than the K3LA in the video. Keep in mind that the recording I provided is a 1L bell, most likely in new condition, being blasted at around 90-100psi. It's quite soft sounding. The arguably excessive amount of air of air being pushed into the horn, as mentioned, changes the timbre of the horn, making it more tinny and less musical sounding. Plus the horn is behind the exhaust. Another thing that reduces the sound quality of the horn, and in many cases, eventually kills it off. As mentioned about the doppler effect, considering this train is approaching at 70mph, the chord would be shifted up about 1.6 steps.

Below is a recording of a RL K3HA that Scott Teague retuned. It's essentially identical to the first chord structure I stated three paragraphs above, except the 1 bell is 5 cents sharp, so everything was tuned around it. In all, the tuning is D#+5, F#+20, B+15. I know this because we talked over retuning the horn, and sharpening the flat 2 and 4A bell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahb8aFu6ZYs
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